Thursday, February 2, 2017

Socratic Seminar Question 1 (Period 6)

Question 1: Which of the Fourteen Points is most significant for lasting peace?

Using the text of the Fourteen Points below (and your analysis from yesterday's assignment) to help you, develop your opinion on this essential question regarding the future of our world and the precarious peace President Wilson has worked to establish in Versailles.

Submit your comments below.  For each question, every student should:
  • Write a comment using evidence to back up your opinion (either by referencing the document or referencing specific facts discussed in class or in your readings)
  • Ask a question
  • Respond to someone else's comment or question
Document 1: The Fourteen Points
I. Open covenants of peace, openly arrived at ...

II. Absolute freedom of navigation upon the seas, outside territorial waters, alike in peace and in war ...

III. The removal, so far as possible, of all economic barriers and the establishment of an equality of trade conditions among all the nations consenting to the peace and associating themselves for its maintenance.

IV. Adequate guarantees given and taken that national armaments will be reduced to the lowest point consistent with domestic safety.

V. A free, open-minded, and absolutely impartial adjustment of all colonial claims, based upon a strict observance of the principle that in determining all such questions of sovereignty the interests of the populations concerned must have equal weight with the equitable claims of the government whose title is to be determined.

VI. The evacuation of all Russian territory and such a settlement of all questions affecting Russia as will secure the best and freest cooperation of the other nations of the world in obtaining for her an unhampered and unembarrassed opportunity for the independent determination of her own political development and national policy ...

VII. Belgium, the whole world will agree, must be evacuated and restored, without any attempt to limit the sovereignty which she enjoys in common with all other free nations. ...

VIII. All French territory should be freed and the invaded portions restored, and the wrong done to France by Prussia in 1871 in the matter of Alsace-Lorraine, which has unsettled the peace of the world for nearly fifty years, should be righted, in order that peace may once more be made secure in the interest of all.

IX. A readjustment of the frontiers of Italy should be effected along clearly recognizable lines of nationality.

X. The peoples of Austria-Hungary, whose place among the nations we wish to see safeguarded and assured, should be accorded the freest opportunity to autonomous development.

XI. Rumania, Serbia, and Montenegro should be evacuated; occupied territories restored ...

XII. The Turkish portion of the present Ottoman Empire should be assured a secure sovereignty ...

XIII. An independent Polish state should be erected which should include the territories inhabited by indisputably Polish populations ...

XIV. A general association of nations must be formed under specific covenants for the purpose of affording mutual guarantees of political independence and territorial integrity to great and small states alike.

54 comments:

  1. Document or point II is more important for lasting peace because if there is peace at sea then there should be less tension within the nations which would lessen the need of a war or battle.

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    1. Are you applying that today or just back then?

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    2. But under the League of Nations, it can also be arranged to have an ultimately free trade without any sea-travel dangers.

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    3. will having peace only at sea lead to no war?

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  2. the last one since if we are all united then no one would be willing to mess with one huge army and we would never truly fight with in a groupe

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  3. The last one because the rest are basically decisions that can be made and agreed upon by a league of nations.

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    1. why rodolfo the 14 point would bring us closer to be united making it more important than who goes where

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    2. by creating a big army you could only create panic that would only lead to war or fear that would eventually become a revolution if this "super nation" actually success.

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    3. Either way, we ended up with WW2, so it didn't seem to work in the end.

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    4. how if we are inforcing peace and there would only be conflict if one attacks us witch would be dumb because all would get involved

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  4. Another way to phrase this question: Which of these points is NOT important? Are there any of these suggestions that you think might actually CAUSE more conflict?

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    1. I think that the points like 8 and eleven giving the conquered lands back to the original owners will be a cause for war.

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  5. I believe that the League of Nations(a general association of nations) is the most important part of the 14 Points since it can help create the idea of world peace and Wilson's vision of "a war to end all wars"

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    1. It can help, but will it help?

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    2. offcourse it would since there wouldnt be any problems if we are united and through talks and meetings we can learn to exept eachother causing less tentionn

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    3. Yeah, that's why we excluded Germany and Russia.

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    4. I agree with this whole "create world peace"

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  6. I'm more aligned with point #3 of the 14 Points as the most significant peace keeper among the bunch as it takes into account all the nations and benefits them all together with not negative outcome for their inclusion. It also has a duty of, "consenting to the peace and associating themselves for its maintenance."

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  7. I think that the second point is most used full for establishing peace for great lasting peace . This is because in the seas there is freedom of seas for trading and helping other countrys . A great example of this is when the united states helped europe while they were in war in germany . Trading between this to nations was not long lasting becuase of the german technology like the u-boat that sank an american ship . Later the president of the united states wanted a treat of no interferance between seas for that nations could trade freely even when at war .

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    1. I agree because it would help with trade.

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  8. A number of people have said that the League of Nations (Point 14) is the most significant - are there any downsides to creating a League of Nations? Is it really practical? Any ways this could cause more conflicts than it solves?

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    1. Well, a downside to that would be that every nation would have to mobilize, which would cost lots of money to each nation and also lots of protest from each of the countries peoples(depending on the nation).

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    2. so if one falls, the rest do too (economically first)

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  9. Иосиф СталинFebruary 2, 2017 at 10:13 AM

    Of all of the XIV Points, Point IV is very significant for lasting peace, because a small army with low armaments won't be able to cause a global war, only a small war or barely a skirmish. Overall one nation won't be able to take over other nations due to their lack of military power.

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    1. So like what is your stand on "the only way for peace is to be ready for war"?

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    2. that is true, but what about how strong their armaments are? Numbers are not as important as quality and strength. If one country can have stronger weaponry than another, then it can take over the other and take over the weapons and it would be like a ripple effect, wouldn't it?

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    3. I agree with your statement

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  10. Do any of you guys think that the 14 Points was a bit unfair with certain nations?

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    1. it was yet it got us closer to peace way closer than any other point

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    2. yes, because it basically just united big and powerful nations

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    3. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  11. I think that the most significant point is number 2 because countries wouldn't start claiming the sea. This would make trade easier and warfare wouldn't happen again. In World War 1, Germany to over the sea and would sink the ship,with the U-boats, that would travel through cause many people to die.

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    1. I agree with you because keeping peace in the seas will be helpful to all countrys .

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    2. but why will they be in conflict in the first place

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  12. point 14 would be a major key to keep lasting peace because it will help the nations be connected and avoid divisions that turn out into conflicts

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    1. With which nations will we be keeping peace.

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  13. The most would be point 14 because with a league of nations because of what is stated "afford mutual guarantees of political independence and territorial integrity."

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  14. i believe that point V is the most significant because it prevent war from breaking out. for example England had the colonies in america. america later had a war against England for their rights.

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  15. Point one because it bans secret alliances.

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    1. but isn't alliances what they wanted?

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  16. point2 is important because it decreases the chances of war happening by allowing people to freely trad by sea and recive supplies by others, this limites the chances of tension between people

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